The announcement that the real-life MI6 (Secret Intelligence Service) has appointed its first female head (known as ‘C’) brought some wry smiles from regular Bond aficionadoes, as it came some 30 years after Dame Judi Dench became the new MI6 boss ‘M’ in Goldeneye (1995), Pierce Brosnan’s debut movie as 007.
Inevitably, over the years, Dame Judi has given numerous interviews about her time as ‘M’, which ended with her final appearance in Spectre (2015), and it is clear that she remains very proud of her time as the SIS chief in the Bond franchise. A good example is the detailed interview she gave in 2017, held live before an audience at The China Exchange on Wednesday, 7th June. Interestingly, at one point, Dame Judy said that she thought Daniel Craig might do another Bond film, but hadn’t decided whether or not to do so. In hindsight, this was one prediction the acclaimed Shakespearian actress was spot-on about, as Craig did return, of course, in No Time To Die (2021), his final turn as Ian Fleming’s secret agent.
For her China exchange interview, Dame Judi was interviewed live on stage for an hour by Sir David Tang, in a session entitled ‘An Evening with Dame Judi Dench’, as part of a series of interviews with stars arranged by The China Exchange in London, in conjunction with the Prudential Insurance Company. And, naturally, at the time, the JBIFC had a spy on the ground at the sell-out event. The JBIFC takes the opportunity to revisit this interview. In what was a wide-ranging interview, the former ‘M’ was quizzed about both her long career in theatre, her philosophy about life, and her eventual ‘breakthrough’ into cinema with the award-winning Mrs. Brown (1997), the film that she felt took her career in a new direction.
Dame Judi also confirmed that she was going to reign again as Queen Victoria in (what was then) the new film Victoria and Abdul, which was released in September, 2017, two decades after she had first portrayed Britain’s nineteenth century monarch in Mrs. Brown. Her performance as Victoria in that particular film (released the same year she played ‘M’ for a second time in Tomorrow Never Dies) received high praise from the critics, and helped her win both a BAFTA and a Golden Globe Award, together with a Best Actress nomination at the Oscars. She revealed that the film was originally made for television only, but that the (now infamous) Hollywood movie producer Harvey Weinstein saw it and became convinced that it deserved a cinema release and a much wider audience.
From ‘M’ With Love
During the course of her 60-minute interview with Sir David Tang, a large part of which involved her responding to questions from the audience, Dame Judi was inevitably asked about her time as MI6’s boss, a role she held for 17 years and seven films (or eight in reality, because – as she pointed out – she ‘did a morning’ on Spectre). She said: ‘I did enjoy playing ‘M’ a great, great deal’.
Her first 007 movie as ‘M’, of course, was Goldeneye (1995), opposite Pierce Brosnan, a role that she was strongly encouraged to take by her late husband, Michael (who was something of a Bond fan). She told the audience that she was ‘very overawed’ when she was invited to play ‘M’, but when she was asked about her motivation for accepting the role she joked that ‘my husband said “you have got to do it, because I long to live with a Bond woman”!’ She added that her grandson and his friends had also been very excited about her playing the role of Bond’s boss. She also commented that, on the first day of shooting Goldeneye, she did not know who was more nervous, Pierce or her. Concerning the role overall, though, she repeated that: ‘I am very, very pleased I did it’.
Interestingly, despite the claims of various commentators in the past, Dame Judi firmly denied that her interpretation of the role of ‘M’ was based on Stella Rimmington, the first female head of the domestic Security Service MI5.
But she did confirm that she had had some dealings with real-life intelligence officers: ‘I did meet with MI6’. She said that she went to a ‘wonderful lunch’ at what she called the ‘lego’ MI6 building at Vauxhall, where she met Sir David Spedding, who was head of MI6 at the time, and five other intelligence officers (this building is now very familiar to Bond fans, after its appearances in both the Brosnan and Craig Bond films).
When asked which Bond she preferred, Pierce or Daniel, Dame Judi made it very clear (quite rightly) that this was a very unfair question, as ‘they are totally different people – completely different’.
And on the topic of Bond as the situation then stood in 2017, when she was asked who she would like to see Daniel Craig replaced by, Dame Judi said she didn’t know and that she thought that ‘maybe he’ll do another. I don’t think he’s decided whether or not to do another’. She added that the role carried an ‘unbelievable responsibility’. Similarly, when asked whether there would be a ‘female Bond’ in the future, Dame Judi made it very evident what she thought of such a question: ‘I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I know that’s very fashionable’.
From ‘M’ to ‘V’
Her reprisal of the role of Queen Victoria illustrated Dame Judi’s strong desire to keep working, despite some further deterioration in her eyesight, something she touched on during the interview with Sir David. The new movie, which was based on a book by Shrabani Basu and had a screenplay by Lee Hall, was directed by Stephen Frears, and started shooting in September, 2016. It had included about six weeks at Victoria’s real-life residence on the Isle of Wight, which Dame Judi said had helped forge a real sense of community among the cast, reminiscent of the kind of bond that often develops in a theatre company.
All in all, Dame Judi was in top form during the course of the evening, and it was obvious that she thoroughly enjoyed talking about her highly successful approach to acting.
After stepping aside as ‘M’, a role she had felt very reluctant to let go of, Dame Judi had been replaced by Ralph Fiennes as the new MI6 boss. However, Dame Judi had remained in close touch with the world of Bond. In 2016, for example, Dame Judi, who had remained very proud of her role as ‘M’ (which came to an end after her death in Skyfall), reunited with some of the members of the Bond ‘team’ when she was one of the guests at the special Bond-themed ‘Diamonds Are Forever’ gala. The gala was held to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award scheme. The special evening, which took place at the Stoke Park estate in the county of Buckinghamshire (a location used both in Goldfinger and Tomorrow Never Dies), saw Dame Judi reconnecting with former Miss Moneypenny Samantha Bond (who remains a very close friend) and actor Colin Salmon, who played MI6 officer Charles Robinson. She also met various other Bond luminaries during the event, including the music DJ Goldie and former 007 Sir Roger Moore, and was able to chat to the then Bond producers Michael G. Wilson and Barbara Broccoli. At one point, Dame Judi and Barbara Broccoli were photographed together while in deep conversation. One can only speculate what course the conversation may have taken! To show her loyalty to the world of Bond, Dame Judi had decorated her shoulder with a diamante ‘007’ logo.
Since the 2017 China Exchange interview, Dame Judi has given a number of other details of her time as ‘M, including – more recently – her memories of her debut day as ‘M’, and the relish she had felt for the part, and it is clear that she remains constantly thrilled at how many younger Bond fans she meets in the street or in restaurants remain in awe of her time as ‘M’. As soon as news broke of the appointment of the new real-life ‘C’, parts of the British press soon used this as an opportunity to invoke the world of Bond and carry images of Dench as ‘M’. Now doubt Dame Judi was very pleased.
You know the name, and you know the number. The next big question will soon be, who will be the new ‘M’ in Bond 26, now that the franchise is under new management (so to speak).Whoever wins the role, they will be taking on a part that remains pivotal to the world of James Bond.
Dame Judi ‘M’ Dench with 007 Daniel Craig in Casino Royale